(raw) In depth notes from 3rd MIAC hearing
MIAC Hearing, Grandview, MO August 31, 2009
These are the unedited notes of Tracy Ward of Liberty Restoration Project. Thanks, Tracy 
Mike Ferguson starts off the discussion. Not speaking on behalf of state government. This was first state who’s report was released. We’re being watched by other states, etc. Are we going to sweep this under the rug or really address situation. Report profiled about half the people in the state. Those on political left who’s not in report, it could have easily been you. If this is not dealt with, it will be you. Indirect attack on 1st amendment right. Speaking out putting you on a list, is a deterrent to people being involved with politics. Very close to politicizing our police with this report. Undermines those who make up law enforcement. We need to keep an eye out for the real bad guys, but this report is not the way to go about doing so. We are safest and law enforcement is safest when we go along with out 1st amendment freedoms. Prevent MIAC to be used politically. Clarify that political actions will not be used against people. Permanent oversight of MIAC. Somebody elected by voters for oversight of MIAC. Would you say that people profiled in this report be somebody who would mess with public water or going into a power plant? I was profiled by this report. It targets the wrong people. Neo-nazi’s and white supremist are dangerous. However, it lumps them with 3rd party candidate supporters, etc. There was no specific mention of what a possible threat would be, waterway, food supply, etc. Focused far too much on conspiracy theories and bumper stickers. Set specific goals to what the MIAC will achieve with their oversight.
Sissy Spragens – Representing libertarian party and self. 1st, report misrepresents libertarians. We support 2nd amendment, oppose income taxes, but we’re not anti- semitic or neo nazis. Our view of ultimate majority is self. Libertarian party is not left or right. We’re pretty much center and don’t blame problems of society on race, color, creed. government shouldn’t use political ideology for any reason or profiling. Freedom of expression is preserved un MO constitution and US constitution. Participation in politics is important and we shouldn’t disuede people from being active. End the Fed rally’s etc. Group of leftist anarchist were at end the fed rally. trying to get others to do things like jaywalk and were frustrated because we were being law abiding. low level terrorists is an abomination, consider political ideology low level terrorism. fusion centers why are they here? 200x’s more likely to get in car accident before terrorist attack. quote you gave about protesters are low level terrorists, came from (aclu filed report) would health care protesters fall in that category, yes
Darrel castle, vp constitution party. by reference im targeted by this report. some look like to be his age, when he was 22 yo he took oath to protect country from enemies foreign and domestic. when coming from far east, nixon had allegation of enemies list, he was forced to resign. people on enemies list were political left. now enemies list contains both left and right. these things are caused by the rush for power. power corrupts minds and morals of person. how can reports like this be prevented… this report is still out there 72 fusion centers in use now. power is controlled through decentralization. 60’s and 70’s terrorist was a very strong word. who is the real threat, who granted this report, did they have goodwill and inteent, or did they want to politicize law enforcement? airports peope get searched for differnt propoganda items, people are worried about coming through missouri for fear of getting stopped and searched. decentralize yourself from federal government and let mo law enforcement do what it does. these fusion centers shoudl be disbanded. whats the difference if the damage is done and still continues. questions. jones from stl county. you talked about how you get stopped at airports, if you think fusion centers should be disbanded, what is your solution for information sharing? constitution sets out powers . they say lack of information, but mroe like lack of communication between different departments. hard for her to difficult for her to take back to community where she’s from, because of being targeted by color of skin.. law abiding citizens, where’s the balancing voice.. so you’re saying since you’ve been targeted it’s only fair to target someone else? the disenfranchised shoudl be outraged, go out and create ourrage. dwb profiling. i get it. we’re all in this together, when we realize this, we’ll effect real change. we’re all americans, somebody’s out there targeting all of us, will effect real change. i’ll go out and create outrage with you!
funderberk – agree fed tenticals cut at every turn, but we have to stop terrorism at every turn as well. would you consider it being a part of state government to collect information about potential threats? woudl that level of data assimilation be alright? yes, it’s the states responsibility to protect the right of people. our reasoning is flawed, many of these problems can be fixed by getting fed gov out. constituion is supreme law of land, when severed, problems arise. government has severed itself from the law and that’s where these parts of problems occur. back then left was profiled, now we are, there’s not much difference except for who’s in power. worldwide gihad is here, but the report profiles those who are against jihad. How would oversight work for you? report wouldnt exsist at all. whoever came up with idea to draft report shoudl be fired. what should have been in place to prevent this from being generated? we have to elect people who are responsible not to do this, now this is here they need to be back in a regular job, fired. prevention of future MIACreports like this coming out? mindset of people, government processes should be in line to protect peoples rights. no access to democratic process causes two parties to be hard to distingush. How do we assure this wont happen again? Some legislative committee may work, but may only come down to one person and everybody else along for ride, perhaps if right person was in charge things may change, just unsure. I would vote Law Enforment professional would work? if right mindset but anybody can be a tyrant. position of authority can abuse authority.
Sheriff of Clinton County – MIAC is a valuable resource to have for local law enforcement. deconflict when doing drug buys. when were’ out doing our jobs, in bad neighborhoods, if we call MIAC and deconflict an address, we can save officers lives if we have others in neighborhood. MIAC helps us to keep from stepping on somebody else’s toes, DEA, ATF, etc. Homicide cases, helps. Local law enformemnt information diseminated. make available to all local enforccement. i read this report. i dont disuade helping people because of their political feelings. 41,000 people in his county that he represents and he has to listen to those people as they are his bosses. guest, you read report, what was your reaction? i didn’t take it as picking on a political party. i beoleive person who wrote it wasn’t either in the way i read it. you can read inot anything. two people reading somethingwill take different views of something. after reading report, who did you think you should be on the lookout for? i dont believe ron paul is a terrorist, i didn’t take it in that report that he was terrorist. jones – when reading report that places most of population of your county in that report, what value is it to you? very minimal.
fallert – those reports when the come out for law enforcement, those are generally based on criminal activity – this report didn’t mean much
Paul Hamby – C4L – c4l was mentioned in this report as well as ron paul. major issue, audit the fed, im profiled as potential terrorist, im not terrorist, im an american. political profiling discourages free speech. 2008 campaign was first election involved in a mom of two hoemschooling kids, im scared to go to meeting because of fear what govt will do to me. what was purpose of report? shut down debate on issues now? how will we find best solutions for our country if you try to shut down those who are opposed to others political views? MIAC report put black eye on mo highway patrol. one of our deputies laughed at this report because everyone of them were profiled. they shredded the profile. if they laughed at this because of them being targeted, what happens when a real threat comes about and they don’t trust these reports and take them serioiusly. great missourian, john ashcroft, wrote book, never again, never again should MIAC put a report out profiling people on political ideals.
Deborah Wells -C4L- audit found online, follow up terrorist screening center. september 2007; terrorist screening center, developed 2003. previous audit done 2005, this is follow up. all terrorists watch lists are converged into this screening center. audit report states that TSE is unable to ensure complete acurate information to call cxenters in timely fashion. over 20,000 new names go into database every month. 20,000 names a month, 700 names a day. if that holds true, from 2–7, there would be 1.2 million names in database right now. duplications, etc, are problems. TSC 99,000 encounters when call center was contacted. oficer stops somebody name hits database, calls call center, center confirms yes or no. 44.3% of calls that were hits, did not match watch list identity. less than 57% of them were on list 3.2% couldnt definitivly determine if hit was correct or not. if you get hit by mistake, you can issue redress, in 2005 – 2007, they recieved 248 redress complaints. state levels complaints aren’t going away, sounds like it would be a mess. redress complaints take average of 68 days to address. i dont want to happen to get put in jail for 68 days waiting to get released.
Funderberk, you won’t know if your name is in there. period.
Amanda Teagart – anti real id, biometrics, powerpoint from OKSAFE – Ispy for the intelligence enterprise. Going over power point that is online. Kissinger, those who are terrorists are those that do not fall in line with international enterprise. (look up) She’s going over the report on OKSAFE for the committee. No computer access to see the document. Awaiting finish testimony for questioning. Read vision 2015 document, customer driven, who’s customer? Reason for 2015 is decision advantage for cusotmers. open ended project, no end to it. launching of gps created by dhs, satelitte systems global system. Do we have a constitutional issue here or corporate considerations here? Which one is God? Sunshine law request all memorandums of understanding . Guest – Who controls fusion centers? Federal government has grant program to mandate and fund centers. Fed govt is in control of fusion centers. What specifically recomendations are you here to give to committee? full disclosure of memorandums of understanding, unless all those are disclosed, you dont have al information to make assesement. No further action taken by fusion centers until everything is disclosed to impartial panel. must have IT professional not paid by govt, on panel. fusion centers do not do ONE MORE THING until all information is out in open.
Larry Finchpaw – Appauled by target for political action in report. Listed not paying taxes, needs to be expanded. We don’t want taxed on slavery. Zeitgeist, documentary, shared with friends of mine. Sound monetary policies, respect sovereignty of states, sound like terrorist or founding father and supporter of America? Report is trying to discredit those of us that are trying to speak the truth about this country. We need to stop meddling in foreign affairs and we possibly wouldn’t be here where we are today dealing with this report,
Richard Hoxsy – 1st he was appauled. most of us fit report to t. go to church, right to life, terrorist. person who let that one part in there, just might be more like devil. im a constitutinal party, still possible terrorist. Our country is starting to go in the wrong direction, most of us are now terrorists now?
Richard Fry – report is shocking, dangerous, outright assertions to vilify individuals, silence opinions. mccarthy and 1950’s. attack on foundation of our country. None of reports offer facts or figures to uphold their allegations. those who oppose immigration are racists. over 50% of illegal population is hispanic. Dixon asked for copy of report instead of reading through report. Additional supervision needs to be in place to make sure another report like this doesn’t come out.
Todd Paulson – KCPD – Midwest HIDA high intesidy drug …. event side, target side of puts two sides together and in touch with each other. knock and talks! buy busts, address is put in to make sure somebody else isn’t working case. deconfliction, support 136 agencies in kcpd. stl new one just came one. major metro areas. talk about how they interact with MIAC. some intelligence is used thorugh MIAC. we use them 24 watch center. smaller sheriffs who don’t have large databases, helps to make sure deconfliction doesn’t happen. confidential informants were going to buy from each other and deconflicted it through miac. national vertual pointer system. deconflictions throughout country. is there another officer in the house at the time? officer safety issue. doesn’t know much about the report that did come out. this is paramount though for officer safety. miac provides that for us. avoiding blue on blue busts.
say we remove federal component, would just borders of state of missouri still work to avoid blue blue? local yes, country wide, no. NDIC. I-80 corridor project, tied state and fed agencies on specific drug. federal part is needed.
typical investigation, state protection intact, would a fed agent imbedded under cover not be known about? correct,
im getting more worried about fed being the oversight to what we’re doing in our state and telling us how to run our agencies. it seems to me that if fed is imbedded that deeply, they may be resistant to telling YOU that they’re there? i dont know. can we restrain the fed, would that still enable you to go through day to day functions? not necessarily, when going from state to state with drugs and money, you’re goingt o have to deal with feds. this is dealing with terrorists,. help me make connection between threats of terrorism and drug enforcementt? provide for smaller agencies and ensure that officers are safe
any colliation and need to protect state of MO in regards to terrorism? we don’t focus on terrorism aspect. we do get some MIAC bulletins, not readily available.
Mike Corwin – KCPD – Captain – commander of dhs dept. co chair of early terrorism task force. intelligence is anylitical. criminal phenomenon to scientific. info gathering and usage is used everyday, even high school principals. intelligence is needed to solve crimes. what’s changed is technology intel is gathered, collected, shared. stay abreast current tech to protect. a rise in crime is likely due to climate in country today. terrorist is not used once in that report. not an accurate rendition. KCTW started wtihout state telling. wants state and feds out of their agencies in telling them what to do. guidelines are not mandatory. fusion centers are not fed government. sharing information is just like building relationships. stove pipe = black hole. national suspicious activity report, gather and maintain information and share it across boundries. similar occurances? white van going to different water treatment facilitys can find out if other agencies have seen pattern. crime analysis, patterns for use if possible crime will be committed. fed govt is NOT in control of fusion centers. read all directives of they are guidelines, not mandatory. we started fusion centers, would be travisty if we shut them down. can flip switch at any time. report wasn’t meant to go out, therefore it is being read incorrectly by those that did read it.
dixon, buying down risks? water treatment no fencing, we buy down risk by putting fence, cameras up, etc
guest – you’re in part with various agencies, do you think kc is a terrorism location? yes. cannot go into details. end the fed rallies, do you monitor those? no, based only on criminal predicate. one individual possibly but not the group as a whole
mievers – fed govt worries, in legislature we hear term fed mandate, we realize that 10th amendment can’t allow certain mandates, but they will attach funding, if we thumb nose at all guidelines, fed would we lose funding? no. KCTEW not fed mandated, no purse strings. im sick of fed govt. fear the door can be opened. two years from now, we continue at trough of fed $$ all while fed gets us accustomed to the $$ … 10 years ago if somebody shared those fears with me, i would say no, 5 years ago, maybe not. 5 months ago, id say same way. how much are we opening the door to more fed involvement? door’s always possible for being openeed. right now, no mandates. ACAMS critical infastructure. asset protection response system. we have our own system. if i dont use this tool will i lose money? our sysytem is much better, provides first responders with response to all hazards all the way through. ACAMS doesn’t do that.
funderbunk – we don’t take orders, we can flip switch, we dont want state telling us what to do either… who should you take orders from? stucture of MIAC is seperate entity. we take orders from our constituents. report wasn’t written for a lay person, only for law enforcement view. lay person can’t read it the way law enforcement does. You start creating this profile, you’re creating a potential profile for terrorists, I dont blame people for being worried.
Fallert – fusion centers, what they were origianlly set up for, are they providing a good service in protecting citizens? yes, used to just be for terrorism now takes an all crimes approach. – I want to know process your department goes through when receieving these reports? not very often that we recieve reports. typically recieved by my unit and then review, if needed to be passed on, we do that. we did analysis on it and we didn’t have a chance to go over all of it due to released to public. what was so importatnt on it to pass it on to analysis? runs so much deeper than possible. know somebody is robbing places, don’t have finger on him, see him showing up in various parts of city, mom and pop call in suspicious activity, try to link it together. when looking at all these links, you’d have to search everybody.. I have problem with people profiling those who are in disagreement with country. Under Constitution, we’re protected. Never want to see law enforcement interfere with people exercising their rights in speaking out. We need to not profile people like that. Officer agrees.
You said MIAC report was appropriate? Yes for the eyes it was intended for. When passing it on, were analysis going to see if there was legitamacy to it? yes
Mark O’Jour – law enforcement is getting flack for report and having to answer for it. MIAC should be answering for it. I see the report as listing a large group of people and being lumped together and that they’re the worst of it. That they’re violent, gun toting, rasicts. Why are white people calling white people racists? How is this happening? Disaster of last administration and new administration is dealing with clean up. economic woes. who asked for this report? this is not unquie information, on splc website. format looked cut and pasted at 2am. john d podessta/janeine garafello. 2, 26, 09, olberman show, jeanine is stating that right wing people and women are nut jobs. rhetoric keeps up. tie in with media matters, with this administration, parental control over this political manor this report is being used for.
Christina McKennis – how to prevent future miac reports… holding these reps at this table accoutable and pull their bonds. get a backbone, or lose your job. backbone, holy bible, write to nixon, tell him to come arrest johnson county library for having ftf.
Catherine Bleish – clarify that dhs report came out and it did state terrorists. dhs fed fusion center. went to adl website, splc website, highlighted instances of plagiarism. counted 8 where text is verbatim from adl website. no citations in documents. she has 11 of the reports, 2 are classified. black separatism report uses wikipedia, splc, and verbiage is same from. would be kicked out a grad school if she turned in reports like these. every report except one gives reasons for aggitation. every one of the reports groups have problem with fed govt. only makes sense that they would write reports on those who don’t like fed govt. reports show groups non violent, why are they being profiled. harbor resentments on fed govt. sovereign citizens movement report, distrust of govt, changing justice dept, why would it change, should be consistant. they’re not looking at the federal govt when they’re the ones that people have most problems with, instead they’re looking at the people. fema was training enforcement officers that founding fathers were the first terrorists. HR 645 FEMA bases on military bases, for emergency. fed def of emergency, very broad. dhs oversees fema and legislation stating they want detention centers, red flags. Camp FEMA goes into how we’re being profiled, marginalized. was the retraction disseminated through all the same channels as the report was sent through? if went to OK, did OK get retraction as well? 72 fusion centers, who is accesing what, where are lines drawn? their not in all of them, so no dhs security analysis in any of them. fusion centers are stuck in the middle, one information channel through fbi, one through dhs. boeing to staff two fusion centers. analyst involved with fusion center? why are corp involved with fusion center, private sector businesses, needs to have real time access to information from fusion centers. speaking about how at our rallies we were training our own marshalls, we notified all local enforcement agencies as well to let them know that we were holding these rallies, etc.
Kevin Kobe – where does fine line lie and how can we prevent extremist behavior from happening? Common beleive that 2nd amendment wasn’t for hunting, but for protection of our selves. Those who make peaceful revolutionj impossible make a violent revolution probable. people created states and states created fed govt. those here are those who still believe in the process of getting things changed and not in a slow change.
Tags: MIAC
